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Tuesday, March 29, 2005

The Winds of Change are in the Air

I read over at The Cranky Liberal that the GOP was looking at making big gains in the African-American vote. He had posted some commentary at the end of the news article on it basically expressing that he (Cranky) thought that the GOP had no chance.

Then today, Jesse Jackson came to Florida and made an appeal for Terri Schiavo's life. Friends, I think this is the hole in the dike. I believe that the Democratic party has taken African-Americans for granted far too long, and pressed issues that are contrary to the values of many black voters. African-Americans are, as a group, more religious than whites and with Jackson stepping out of the lockstep he has been in for 20 years (as long as I can remember, at least) with the national Democratic party, I think that they will feel more justified in voting with the party that more often supports their moral values. Regardless of what I think of Jackson personally, he still remains a significant voice in black politics. We shall see.


  • I just posted my take on group decision making.

    By Blogger Robert, at 3/30/2005 12:57:00 AM  

  • Hammer

    I didn't mean that the GOP won't make up ground, I meant that they won't capture 30% of the vote in 2008 which is the goal. That would be an astounding vote swing. Even where some of the issues dovetail, it is doubtful that it will be enough to more than double the vote.

    My main point was that if the GOP looks attractive to African Americans, it is more to do with the failings of Democratic leadership than some wonderful quality of the GOP.

    By Blogger Cranky Liberal, at 3/30/2005 11:01:00 AM  

  • Hammer

    I didn't mean that the GOP won't make up ground, I meant that they won't capture 30% of the vote in 2008 which is the goal. That would be an astounding vote swing. Even where some of the issues dovetail, it is doubtful that it will be enough to more than double the vote.

    My main point was that if the GOP looks attractive to African Americans, it is more to do with the failings of Democratic leadership than some wonderful quality of the GOP.

    On the Jackson issue, that in and of itself won't matter in 4 years. Mr. Jackson may be speaking his mind, and grabbing some attention, but he will be the first to tell you that the GOP does NOT represent their moral values better. I've been in the room with the man, and he is no fan of the GOP.

    By Blogger Cranky Liberal, at 3/30/2005 11:05:00 AM  

  • Cranky,

    I also think 30% is dreaming - but if it reaches 20%, then the Democratic Party wil never win another Presidency without major changes - the kind of changes they have been unwilling to do to this point, and the kind of changes that may keep the black vote. I agree that it's the Dems screwing up that makes this happen - but the Repubs not making the same kind of mistakes is worth something as well to the equation.

    As for Jackson, the question is the same - is he mad enough at the Democrats to overcome his disdain for the GOP? Doubtful, but simply not lining up with the Dems wholeheartedly would be enough to shake the ground, I think.

    Thanks for stopping by!

    By Blogger Hammertime, at 3/30/2005 12:09:00 PM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Hammertime, at 3/30/2005 12:19:00 PM  

  • Hammer, you think its dim-wittedness or dishonesty?

    You don't like baiting...I know. I respect that. Remember when I told you that I would leave you and those like you to deal with this in a reasonable manner? Do you remember what I felt may be necessary? There is no doubt that I can reduce every one of the Cranky Liberals points to either being completely false or a matter of opinion---I've done it enough to know exactly what happens while you're doing it to. You nail down one point and they shift to another; or they use apples-to-oranges arguments; or present opinion as fact; or they ignore what they don't want to hear; or (my personal favorite) call me a hard-hearted SOB---all the while making childish little "travel agency" jokes.
    So what to do? grrrrrriiiiiiiinnnnnnnn

    By Blogger David Hunley, at 3/30/2005 01:15:00 PM  

  • Once again we learn that David believes that liberal's opinions are a matter of opinion. Conservative opinions, however, agree with David's, which makes them much better.

    David, I love debating opinions with you, but you always get back to this little mantra of yours. You keep complaining about a lack of facts without ever presenting a fact on your own.

    I always try to give you the benefit of the doubt and try to see your point of view, but I rarely if ever feel you are doing the same. I don't know, maybe what I type doesn't demonstrate any more understanding then what you type, perhaps sitting back at your computer you occasionally say to your self "I hadn't thought of that" or "that's an interesting perspective" before determining how to reply. What do I know.

    Both Jackson and Nader came out in defense of Terri. I'm not sure what it means other than this apparently isn't a typical liberal versus conservative issue. Perhaps we finally found an issue where the moderates complain the loudest.

    By Blogger Mark, at 3/30/2005 03:51:00 PM  

  • Thanks Hammer

    I don't think 20% is out of the question by 2008, but it's a long time, and the GOP certainly isn't very friendly to many of the needs of our urban areas. Time will tell.

    David - hey you know what, I'm a big boy (but the diet is going well) so you know, come over to MY site if you want to debate MY opinions (of which I freely admit they are). You don't need to ask Hammers permission. I'd be happy to welcome you over for a debate. Who knows I might learn a thing or two.

    (gee Hammer was I nice enough on your site? Self Censorship is the hardest)

    By Blogger Cranky Liberal, at 3/31/2005 10:54:00 AM  

  • Not only is Cranky nice enough here, but he does throw down on his site if you bring some heat. I visit his site because he returns the respect of those who comment. If you are after a fight with some liberals, they have established one called .

    I am not looking for a fight, but reasonable discussion, so I've never been there. It might be right up David's alley, though.

    By Blogger Hammertime, at 3/31/2005 04:46:00 PM  

  • Stupid blogger. I know how to do html links...

    By Blogger Hammertime, at 3/31/2005 04:51:00 PM  

  • Cranky I love it!
    Didn't realize I'd ask Hammer for permission...wanted to respect his site. I'd appreciate the invite, I love the tone and I'll take you up on it.


    Let's see...we've been through abortion, social security, taxes, infant mortality rates, (did we cover oil?...can't remember now), troop strength, the relationship between free nations, the deficit, Kerry's lies vs Bush's lies. What else?...oh yeah, evolution, our court system, amendments, morality issues...huh...does that about cover it? During these discussions, I've presented facts, figures, quotes, and yes, tons of opinions but in far less measure than I have received them---in my Care to start from the top again? As I've said pick it.

    By Blogger David Hunley, at 4/02/2005 02:41:00 PM  

  • Hey Cranky,

    Wanted to make sure I understood what was going on. You've moved your blog to "Bring it on"...and I should look for posts by you specifically? There are other bloggers who share this site?
    I listened to your audio too. I see nothing wrong with your voice...and I don't see anything really wrong with what you said either. I've never advocated discrimination...think the whole gay marriage fiasco is the result of Christians falling into a trap of a government handout...sure don't advocate murder for whatever reason, whether it be from being dragged behind a truck or ran into by a plane...I'm certainly not going to put myself in the position of defending what Pat or...huh...was it Jerry?...said no more than I'd expect you to defend what John Kerry has said.
    If I see it correctly, I understand your last post to be something about a global environmental threat? Couldn't really see anything wrong with the statistics in there either. Don't know...haven't looked at them close enough yet. Didn't care much for the redneck/wife beater/humvee driving/Wal-Mart shopper stuff...but I understand that this is only your opinions and that you never said your opinions would make sense or be free of the kind of hatred you claim others directe others...hey, I can play the senseless, hateful game as well as anybody (and if not, I'm a big enough boy to take my licks). I can even see where it will wind up already...with you trying to force me to do something and me trying to force you to NOT force me to do know, like that "imposing your beliefs onto others" stuff that liberals (cranky or not) are supposed to be against? Kinda like "In the name of a liberal are NOT allowed to buy and drive a Humvee!" That kind of stuff.
    But back to the global warming issue...I'll take it up at your site after I'm assured that I understand the way the site runs.

    By Blogger David Hunley, at 4/02/2005 03:44:00 PM  

  • Oh...and by the way,

    I don't want this to sound like a cheesy guess I'll make it sound like a cheesy solicitation.

    I sincerely invite you all to visit my website. It's not a blog per se...and it's a new and young site...with only a few over a 100 members so far (rather difficult to deal with sometimes because it's new and we're hoping the power that makes it difficult will eventually pay dividends in possibilities) ...NOT dedicated to politics, a completely open forum, and provides people the opportunity to do small, concrete things to help each other...R's, D's, L's, hopelessly the stripe.

    Cheesy enough for you all?

    By Blogger David Hunley, at 4/02/2005 03:53:00 PM  

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